Even after more than 20 years in the industry, George Lois still managed to open my eyes and teach me a thing or two about what it means to be a creative, courageous, socially responsible member of the advertising community.

So whether you are a sparkling-fresh newbie to the business or a lifer like me, George has some Damn Good Advice for you. And you may want to listen up.

PART ONE: MAD MEN                                                                                          

MJ:

There’s a lot of speculation that the creators of Mad Men based the Don Draper character on you. Any truth to that?

George Lois:

People all over the world call me the original Mad Man, the original Don Draper. First of all, I’m talented. Then, I’m not an anti-Semite, not a racist, I’m not a womanizer, etc., etc., etc., etc. Other than that, it doesn’t piss me off. So yes, I am the original Don Draper—if he had any talent or morals.

MJ:

From what I know about you, your story told as-is would’ve made a better show.

George Lois:

Well, that’s kinda what happened. Before they even started, everybody had heard about this new show coming out that was supposed to be about the exciting period of the 1960s and advertising.  Everybody was calling me up saying, “Hey George, they’re doing a show on the Creative Revolution. They’re doing a show about you.” And that went on and on and on.

Finally I get a call from Matt Weiner’s right-hand man, who was rounding up people from the original Mad Men era to videotape or something. I said look, it sounds like you guys are going to be doing a show about a scumbag agency and I don’t like the whole thing. I know you are going to do that! If you really wanna know what was going on in the 1960s, I wrote a book called “George, Be Careful” in 1972. If you want to know what was going on in the 1960s, buy that book. Then I kinda hung up on him.

He calls back about a week later and says, “Oh my god! We are all going crazy here reading your book! We could’ve done a show about YOU!” Then he starts describing six or seven scenes from my book, like the time I threatened to commit suicide [by jumping out of a window] during a client meeting because the owner of the company wouldn’t buy my concept, even though everybody else loved it.

MJ:

I’ve read about your exploits. Some of them are so outrageous, they make the Mad Men look like a bunch of angry little boys. It sounds like they wanted to tie in to your experiences, but still make the lead man a scumbag. That doesn’t sound like you at all.

George Lois:

Yea, I kinda kept my mouth shut for a while. But I just kept getting called the original Mad Man, and it made me mad.

About two years later, Playboy Magazine calls me up and says, “We’d love to have you write something for the two year anniversary of Mad Men and talk about the show.” And I said, “I hate the goddam show.” They said, “Great! Can you write something about hating the show?”

So that’s when I wrote something about it and wound up saying, “The more I think about Mad Men, the more I take the show as a personal insult. So f*ck you Mad Men, you phony grey flannel suit, male chauvinist, no-talent, starched white shirt-wearing racist anti-Semitic sons-of-bitches. Besides, when I was in my 30s I was WAY better looking than Don Draper.”

MJ:

Pretty strong words.

George Lois:

I’ll say. But what’s funny is that about a week ago I met Matthew Weiner and John Hamm. I showed up at a party with my son, Luke. There was a mob around Matthew Weiner.

I went up to say hello. I said, “Hey Matthew, my name is George Lois.” And his head went back about two feet. He said “George Lois, I can’t tell you how important you are to our show!” Whatever the hell that means. He went on and on, kissing my ass—but you could tell he didn’t want to be there.

Then I went over to meet Jon Hamm. Hamm went nuts; he was so thrilled to meet me. He said “I know all of your books and looked at everything you did. I know everybody was calling you the original Don Draper. I can’t thank you enough, sir.”

I love being called “sir.” He was a real sweetheart and we got a great photo together.

MJ:

Mad Men is set in an incredibly volatile time period. A sea of change was just beginning to rise in this country, and it seems as if the show falls short of addressing the positive role advertising played in reshaping social opinion.

George Lois:

I hate seeing the racism in Mad Men. Back during that time period, there was still incredible racism. Separate drinking fountains and everything. Back in the late 50s/early 60s, Cassius Clay [who George worked with closely] couldn’t even get a hamburger at the same lunch counter as a white guy in the South.

And then there were guys like me. A big part of my book [“Damn Good Advice (for people with talent)”] is about doing the right thing. And it’s hard work! There are plenty of opportunities to do the right thing. A lot of them came my way back then, and I grabbed them. If I could use any of my talent to get a guy out of jail who was falsely imprisoned for murder, like Rubin “Hurricane” Carter, then I did it and gladly paid the consequences.

In the midst of the publicity storm I helped create to free Rubin Carter, my Cutty Sark client called me to his office. This is a five million dollar account to my agency, remember. Without as much as a hello, he says to me “Lois, stop working for the [racial slur omitted] or I will fire you.” I didn’t blink and told him that I believed that Rubin Carter was innocent and I wouldn’t turn my back on him. The next day, he fired my agency. I’ve always been proud of doing the right thing.

Jack Kennedy was assassinated. Dr. King was assassinated. Bobby Kennedy was assassinated. The terrible Vietnam War. Civil rights. Women’s Lib. These were all going on back then. Really exciting and dramatic things were happening along with the Creative Revolution in advertising. Great things and terrible things. But we had passionate men and women who lived to do great advertising. We were changing the culture. We made everything brighter and sharper and smarter.

I think Mad Men missed this entirely.

MJ:

A lot of people can point to certain TV programming that was instrumental in their pursuing advertising as a career. Bewitched. Bosom Buddies. Thirtysomething. These have all portrayed our industry in a fairly positive light. Do you think Mad Men will have a negative impact on the next generation of advertising professionals?

George Lois:

I am astounded when I hear young women at my college lectures say something like “Boy, watching that Mad Men show. It must’ve been fun back then.”

Fun?!? First, I don’t like being associated with the behavior on Mad Men. And, what’s fun about being a woman and being harassed? There’s nothing fun about that. That’s how they treat women on that show.

Obviously, it’s a soap opera. And a lousy soap opera. I get so tired of being called “The Original Mad Man” and “The Original Don Draper.” If I did mediocre advertising, I’d be like them. If I was a womanizer, which I am not, I would be like him. I’ve been married to the same woman for 60 years! Your wife and family are the most important thing, so don’t do anything to jeopardize that. Ever. Ever. Ever.

When I watch Mad Men I sit in shock, revolted at what’s going on there.

When I lecture at colleges, the kids I talk to say they love the romance of the show. And I say, “What’s romantic about that?!? I mean, somebody get up and explain what’s fun about it?”

Out of class of 400 kids, no one can answer.

When I explain to them what was really going on back then with the Creative Revolution, they almost rise off their feet they are so excited.

So, maybe there’s hope.

END PART ONE: MAD MEN                                                                                            

And that's how my conversation about Mad Men with George Lois ended, with a message of hope. In essence, George hopes that people will be inspired by Mad Men. But his hope is that they will be inspired to rise above the “scumbag behavior” glorified in every episode and become the exact opposite of what you see in the show. That is what George really means by “maybe there’s hope.”

Once we got the Mad Men part of the discussion out of the way, things really got rolling. Be sure to check out Part Two of my conversation with George Lois, where we actually talk about advertising, creativity and the state of our industry today.

[SEE PART TWO BELOW]

The following entry captures the part of my conversation with George where we cover advertising, creativity and the state of the industry today--and you can believe that he has a few strong words for today’s creatives.

     

MJ:

So, enough about Mad Men. Let’s talk about your latest book, which is full of damn good advice. Even says so on the cover: “Damn Good Advice (for people with talent).” I’ve read it and can tell you what my favorite bits are. But I am more interested in what you think. What made you want to write this book in the first place?

George Lois:

The reason I wrote the book is because the editor from Phaidon called me up. I knew her from a book I did about four years ago. She called me up and said, have you ever heard of a book we did called “It’s Not How Good You Are, It’s How Good You Want to Be?” It’s a small book, costs $10 and sold two million copies. It was an important book for us and I’d like you to read it.”

So I get the book and I’m reading this book and it tells kids, “If you want to be important, take your business card and re-write it so it makes you more important than you really are.”

It’s full of advice like that.

One page says, “When selling your ideas, never promise a successful result.”

That’s a lesson: “Never promise that you will be successful.”

Another one is, “Always show your client what they want. Not what you think you should create for them.” They’re saying, “Do what they want because they are your client.” They have the money and if you show them what you like, they might not like it.

And here’s another one: “95 percent of a client’s budget should be spent giving him what he thinks he wants. The other 5 percent should be spent doing what you think he should run.”

And another, “Do not put good people on new business pitches; they may come up with something too original. And if it’s too original, there’s a good chance they won’t buy it.”

I mean, this is the “advice” they’re giving?!? So I called her up and I said “What a despicable book.”

She says, “Well, we sold almost two million copies.”

I says, “I don’t care if you sold 20 million, it’s despicable. You should be ashamed of yourself.”

That’s when she said, “That’s really why I called you. We’d like you to do a book and do it your way.”

I was so pissed off at that book I said “You’re goddam right I’m going to do a book and do it my way. I’m going to call it ‘Damn Good Advice.’”

MJ:

So that’s how this all started then? She asked you to read a book, probably knowing how you would react, and that got you all fired up.

George Lois:

Yes! When I sat down to write my book I sat down pissed off. I decided I was going to write a book that could change people’s lives—not only for a young person, but for anybody in any profession. Not just necessarily advertising. I’m talking to fashion designers, interior designers, etc., etc. etc. So I did it with a passion and thought, “let’s keep this thing at ten bucks” so that for the price of a lousy Big Mac and a lousy Coke, you can get this goddam book that might change your life.

MJ:

It’s obvious that you put a lot of passion into this book.

George Lois:

I was in a spiritual fervor writing it. That’s the way I felt about it. I talk to young people in communications and advertising programs about my book, and boy I’m telling you they levitate when I talk to them. You can’t believe how excited these kids get.

I’m not sure what advice they’re giving in schools these days. I mean, there are good schools and a lot of the teachers are pros, maybe even people I’ve inspired over the years. But when kids hear these things from me, they go crazy. I mean, I look at them and I kinda yell at them—and they go nuts. Every five minutes there’s a standing ovation. They come up after and ask me how they can have a Creative Revolution again.

And I say, “I’m talking to you, but you’re the ones that have to go and do it!”And I say read the book! What do you think I wrote this f*cking book for—I  wrote it for YOU!!  Start an ad agency. Do SOMETHING!

If I talk to 300 kids and only 10 of them get it, then it’s worth it.

MJ:

With 120 pieces of advice in your book, what do you think is the most important lesson?

George Lois:

The most important thing in the book is that you walk away with an understanding of how to do exciting advertising. How to get exciting work. But even when you do that, it’s not nearly enough.

Obviously you also have to sell it. To sell good ideas, to sell great work … to do that, you must be courageous. To win work that’s edgy, different, innovative—you have to sell that work passionately, because often your client will say, “we can’t do that.”

You have to sell it body and soul. Even to the point that you are in danger of losing the account. They have to know you are willing to go that far. To be that passionate about your idea.

MJ:

That may be hard advice for some to swallow. Especially selling to the point of jeopardizing an account.

George Lois:

You know, I got an email the other day from this bright young kid. He’d taken about 30 of the things I said in the book and wrote a sentence or two explaining what he got out of each one. It was lovely, you know? And at the end he said, “But Mr. Lois, lesson number whatever-it-was…I think that’s one thing you should drop outta the book.” It was the part where I say to never let a client force you to do bad work. He said “If you work for an agency, you can’t just drop an account. It would cost you your job, too. You have to do what you have to do.”

But the minute you start thinking that way, an ad agency can no longer be a great ad agency. If you do that as a creative person, you can no longer be a great copywriter, or a great art director. You have to fight for what’s right. You cannot let a client force you into doing bad work.

If you let them force you into doing bad work, you are less than mediocre. You’re just playing the game.

I tell people all of the time, it’s about courage. It takes moral courage—even physical courage—to stand up and say “Godammit, I will not let anybody force me into doing bad work!”

MJ:

That’s easy for you to say, you’re George Lois.

George Lois:

It’s not easy for anybody. But if you do it my way and stick to it, you’ll be the happiest person in the world. At the end of the day, you’ll look back and say “Boy, I did some really great work.” If you don’t, then you just end up doing what most ad agencies do: get the client to run something-or-other, even though it’s not your best work.

In that case, why bother? I mean, don’t you want to be the best at what you do? Or at least, don’t you want to do good work? Work you can be proud of?

You have to love it and be passionate about it. To this day, I am thrilled that I get paid to do what I do.

MJ:

So what do you say to the people who subscribe to advice like “Always show your client what they want. Not what you think you should create for them.”

George Lois:

The guy who wrote that other book was a Creative Director at Saatchi & Saatchi in London. You know, it’s agencies like that that destroy great creative by buying good agencies. That leaves five or six companies to run most of the advertising in the world. I know people that go work for them then call me and tell me “Gee, it’s no fun over here.”

And I say, “Of course it’s no fun over there. That’s because you are not free to do great work!” Places like that destroy good work within the agency before it even gets to the client.

It’s like this: If you want to be great, you can’t pick and choose which lessons to believe in. You have to have moral fiber, you have to fight for your work and you have to do it courageously.

I drag my clients into doubling their business. I DRAG them! Some clients get it right off the bat. But I’ve had to get tough with clients over the years. The longer I worked in the business, the easier it was to get them to say yes to me. A lot of them said “yes” hesitantly at first, but two weeks into the campaign they call me and say “Oh my God, my sales are up 100%!!”

That’s what it’s all about.

I’m not here to make the client happy. I’m here to make them successful.

MJ:

You were there at the flashpoint of the Creative Revolution and in many ways, touched it off. So, what’s your opinion of creativity in our industry today? How far have we come and have we gone in the right direction?

George Lois:

I talk to some of the best people in the creative business and they don’t get it. They’re almost embarrassed about selling. They are good at making entertaining television ads, but no one remembers the name of the product.

Like the kids I talk to in their classes. This one kid spends all of this time describing a beer ad to me. Everyone in the class says, “Oh yeah! I love that commercial.” Then I ask the class, “What beer was the guy in the ad drinking?”

These 25 kids had an argument for ten minutes and couldn’t agree on what beer the ad was selling. I look and them and say, “HELLO! That’s not advertising.”

If advertising does its job, it almost becomes a benefit of the product you are selling. If your product is the same as everyone else’s, then you need to rely on the words and images coming together in an exciting way. A way that makes your product seem better. Not by lying, of course. But by featuring the product in an exciting way that gets attention.

If you don’t understand that, you’ll never understand what advertising is all about.

MJ:

Is there anything being produced today that you feel is great work?

George Lois:

When I was still in my 20s, I had an argument with Bill Bernbach. He loved my work and called me in one day and said to me, “George, what’s the best ad DDB’s ever done?”

So I told him, the campaign I like the most is Levy’s Jewish Rye. You’ve got a great line “You don’t have to be Jewish to love Levy’s.” And you’ve got great images. It was never a rabbi or anything chomping into that sandwich. It was an Irish cop, or a Native American. It’s that synergy that makes a great campaign.

I watch TV today and find myself watching an ad and when it’s done, I turn to my wife and say “What the hell was that?!?” And I’m not kidding, I’m not being a wise guy. I seriously don’t know what the spot was about. Or what the point was. That goes on a lot. It’s unbelievable. It’s not advertising.

When I talk about exciting, creative advertising it’s got to be cause and effect. It’s got to work! If my advertising never worked, I’d be the biggest big mouth that ever lived. The only reason I can shoot my mouth off is because I created marketing miracles—ads that worked!”

People talk about my Esquire covers a lot. What they don’t realize is that Esquire was close to bankruptcy at the time. But my covers helped sell magazines. They were controversial and cost them some advertisers (mostly in the South at the time), but the sales were big. The only reason they let me get away with the covers I did is because they worked.

MJ:

Then let me ask you this, what is the best campaign you’ve produced?

George Lois:

The best single ad I ever did was the ad that made Tommy Hilfiger famous. One ad! In about three or four days. When the posters went up, everyone in New York was going crazy trying to figure out who that last name was.

I called my friend from Page Six in the New York Post, and he said “we are all going crazy over here trying to find out who the f*ck this TH guy is? The next day Page Six had a headline that said “Who the HELL is T_ _ _ _ H _ _ _ _ _ _ _?!?”

The day after that, the Business Pages runs an article asking “Is Tommy Hilfiger famous because of his clothes or his advertising?” At the time, Tommy only had one little store you know. After that, you couldn’t get in the place.

On the Monday after the ad hit, Tommy was invited to be on the Johnny Carson Show. Johnny had the ad, brought it out, and had this long discussion with Tommy about his career—which was all of a week old at that point.

So yea, I did an ad and BOOM!

Then a few years ago I asked Tommy for a quote for one of my books. He gives me this, “If I hadn’t listened to George Lois in 1985, I’d be poor today.”

​​​​​​​END PART TWO: Creativity                

From that point forward the conversation turned away from advertising and on to other topics. He's a man of many passions, to say the least. What an honor to spend time with one of the most influential creative minds alive today. The path he leaves in his wake is clear. But who of us is courageous enough to follow. Maybe you really do have to be a bit mad.